Why Hungary? published by Brian & Pam Airey on Mon, 18/09/2023 - 10:15
John SHAW, an humble joiner born in Cantsfield, Lancashire in 1835 married Mary Eleanor JOPLIN in 1869 in West Derby, Lancashire. He does not appear in 1871 census and by 1881 he is back in Liverpool area with Mary E and a child Charles Joseph aged 11 years born Hungary. Also resident with him is his brother in law Joseph JOPLIN, who is in the wine and spirit trade. Joseph is in 1861 census but, also like John, not in 1871. So did they all go to Hungary for Joseph to buy wine? Travel must have been difficult as France & Germany were at war. Presumably they would have travelled by train, but how would John with pregnant wife afford to travel that far.
Submitted by gricharduk on Tue, 19/09/2023 - 13:05
I was wondering if he was trying to break his engagement! There are a few sentences on Joseph on page 81 of "Breach of Promise to Marry: A History of How Jilted Brides Settled Scores" (2014) by Denise Bates. He disposes of the wine and spirits business in 1870 because he is "going abroad" (not sure where). See p. 4, Southport Independent and Ormskirk Chronicle, 28 May 1870 edition:
Submitted by Brian & Pam Airey on Tue, 19/09/2023 - 13:22
Thanks for that. I had found the Breach of Promise in the paper and also have seen the Southport paper 1870. I can understand Joseph "going abroad" but why Hungary? It is not on the Grand Tour route surely? The Joplins owned/ran a number of pubs/wine merchants in Liverpool area so must have been quite well off, did Mary Eleanor pay for the Shaws to go?
Submitted by gricharduk on Tue, 19/09/2023 - 13:44
Do you think Joseph Joplin could have been a Conductor of supplies in the Ordnance Department? (I had to look it up!) There is this report on page 2 of the Times of India for 24 February 1870:
It could explain why he was in Europe. The furlough could also explain why he was able to afford it and why he sold the business. I agree with you: He probably paid for the rest of the family.
[Edit: I don't think it is him as this J. Joplin died on 3 July 1878.]
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